Dishonest Literature: A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan.
Every so often I come across a passage in a book where I read it and think, “yes, that’s exactly it!” (“It” being some element or motivation of human behavior that I’ve been thinking about and/or researching.) The following is one of these passages, from Jennifer Egan’s A Visit from the Goon Squad. It hits many of the right notes when it comes to illustrating how we enable ourselves to act dishonestly.
It began in the usual way, in the bathroom of the Lassimo Hotel. Sasha was adjusting her yellow eye shadow in the mirror when she noticed a bag on the floor beside the sink that must have belonged to the woman whose peeing she could faintly hear through the vaultlike door of a toilet stall. Inside the rim of the bag, barely visible, was a wallet made of pale green leather. It was easy for Sasha to recognize, looking back, that the peeing woman’s blind trust had provoked her. We live in a city where people will steal the hair off your head if you give them half a chance, but you leave your stuff lying in plain sight and expect it to be waiting for you when you come back? It made her want to teach the woman a lesson. But this wish only camouflaged the deeper feeling Sasha always had: that fat, tender wallet, offering itself to her hand—it seemed so dull, so life-as-usual to just leave it there rather than seize the moment, accept the challenge, take the leap, fly the coop, throw caution to the wind, live dangerously (“I get it,” Coz, her therapist, said), and take the fucking thing.
“You mean steal it.”
He was trying to get Sasha to use that word, which was harder to avoid in the case of a wallet than with a lot of the things she’d lifted over the past year, when her condition (as Coz referred to it) had begun to accelerate: five sets of keys, fourteen pairs of sunglasses, a child’s striped scarf, binoculars, a cheese grater, a pocketknife, twenty-eight bars of soap, and eighty-five pens…
First we have Sasha’s rationalization—the owner of the purse is so silly and naïve that she deserves to have her belongings taken. Sasha isn’t just stealing money, she’s teaching the woman how to be more careful. How thoughtful!
On top of this, Sasha offers herself the excuse that stealing the wallet is exciting rather than immoral, similar to the way we can glamorize mobsters and mafia in the movies. We also see, through her discussion with her therapist, that she—at least up until that point—had not considered using the word “steal” for what she’d been doing. It’s easier to lie, cheat, and steal if we call it something else (improvising, exaggerating, borrowing, for instance).
Her avoidance of the proper term (“stealing”), in turn, is enabled by the fact that she’d stolen items that were not themselves monetary (how much is a cheese grater worth anyway). This is the same loophole that allows people not to consider taking office supplies from work stealing the way they would taking some money out of an office cash box. We see the therapist, consequently, trying to get her to accept the term stealing for her actions—in this way, he can nullify some of the rationalizations Sasha puts forth.

The Honest Truth About Dishonesty: How We Lie to Everyone - Especially Ourselves

‘had begun to accelerate’ is very interesting — what happens to accelerate lower-level dishonesty into more criminal stuff? Is there a tipping point? What new is going on in Sasha’s head during this period?
After seeing Dan talk in London, I wrote a viewpoint about this in a short blog here: http://changingminds.org/blog/1207blog/120720blog.htm
>This is the same loophole that allows people not to consider taking office supplies from work stealing the way they would taking some money out of an office cash box.
What then, is the loophole that allows employers to ask employees to “donate” unpaid time after hours to maintaining email, completing projects, giving back vacation time? If you’re working 24×7, why do you have to use “your own” pens at home, but you get to use the cruddy ballpoints for free at work? (have you ever seen an office that bought “good” gel pens? No…. you get Bics at work.) When the company demands you have fast access at home, but doesn’t contribute anything to the cost? Use your own paper and printer ink to print stuff for work when you’re at home?
Sorry, Dan, you can do better. Come up with stories that cut both ways, and I’ll buy it.
In Walter Isaacson’s bio of Steve Jobs, there’s a story of Jobs dating a UPenn undergrad at the time of the Mac launch. He hand delivered a new Mac to her dorm. She piercingly asked him how could he spend time at Zen retreats, & then devote himself to creating objects that caused others to have covetous attachment? Her name: Jennifer Egan.
This reminds me of the Raskolnikov conundrum in Crime and Punishment.
I can understand large-scale dishonesty but not this kind of petty dishonesty, where the cost to to self-respect, and the what-if-everyone-did-it outweighs the miserable little benefits. I don’t take unopened shampoos from hotel rooms, or supplies from the office, or little packets of mustard and ketchup from eateries–it just seems to crappy. But I think that if I had a chance to get a million dollars dishonestly I’d do it.
The trouble with the example in this post is that it is describing a mental illness, not run-of-the-mill dishonesty. I don’t know anything about kleptomania except that it gets a page on the Mayo Clinic’s website, which is good enough to call it a mental illness in my book. Equating mental illness with run-of-the-mill dishonesty that the rest of us struggle with is like comparing clinical depression with feeling bad because your cat died. Useless, IMO.
I haven’t read the entire book; read enough of the Amazon reviews to decide it was unlikely to be to my taste. So I can’t tell anything about the context of this example.
It’s an interesting question: where’s the boundaries between dishonesty, criminality and mental illness? Where does ‘I couldn’t help myself’ become an acceptable defense?
It has to be fuzzy at best.
Actually I wasn’t thinking primarily of the details of this story, but of some stuff I read in one of Ariely’s earlier books about experiments with normal subjects who, typically, would cheat in small ways but not in big ways. The empirical evidence is overwhelming, but it still seemed to me utterly counterintuitive. If I cheat, I cheat bigtime: petty pilfering is stupid.
> If I cheat, I cheat bigtime: petty pilfering is stupid.
Makes sense in some ways. And yet there’s a kind of ‘return on risk’ thing, perhaps. Plus aspects of prospect theory.
From http://behavenet.com/kleptomania; much the same content on several other respectable sites:
Individuals with this Impulse-Control Disorder recurrently fail to resist impulsive stealing of objects with no other motivation than the relief or pleasure resulting from the act of stealing itself.
Diagnostic criteria for 312.32 Kleptomania
(DSM IV – TR)
(cautionary statement)
A. Recurrent failure to resist impulses to steal objects that are not needed for personal use or for their monetary value.
B. Increasing sense of tension immediately before committing the theft.
C. Pleasure, gratification, or relief at the time of committing the theft.
D. The stealing is not committed to express anger or vengeance and is not in response to a delusion or a hallucination.
E. The stealing is not better accounted for by Conduct Disorder, a Manic Episode, or Antisocial Personality Disorder.
Understood is that we are talking about a work of fiction, with an example taken out of context. However, this bit:
when her condition (as Coz referred to it) had begun to accelerate: five sets of keys, fourteen pairs of sunglasses, a child’s striped scarf, binoculars, a cheese grater, a pocketknife, twenty-eight bars of soap, and eighty-five pens…
suggests a mental illness, rather than dishonesty. The wallet? Dunno. Not a mental health professional, don’t know if the story has additional info; don’t know what people with “real” (as opposed to the fictional disorder) do in terms of progression.
Agreed, I’ve always found it easy to be honest in the tiny details and can’t swear to what I’d do with a big score. Also aware that while I may be smart, LEOs are patient, and “patient and thorough” beat “smart and careless” any day of the week when it comes to catching criminals. I’ve also spent enough time working within the prison system to not want to spend any more time there.
YMMV.
Plus, the pens they gave us at work weren’t worth stealing.
Does this mean that if I steal just for the fun of it, it’s not a crime? Can I just claim a lack of self-control?
I would ask Dan and all other to estimate correlation between intelligence and honesty. Is it +, 0, OR -? High, OR low?
> correlation between intelligence and honesty
I asked Dan something similar in London. He noted that creative people cheat more. Probably because they can dream up ways to get away with it. If creativity correlates with intelligence, then it would seem we have a match.
>Does this mean that if I steal just for the fun of it, it’s not a crime? Can I just claim a lack of self-control?
Years ago, someone who worked on a mental health hotline told me that they allowed that anyone who called a hotline with a prank call, probably needed to be talking to the hotline….
I have tended to take that approach to pretty much the entire DSM, throughout its iterations. Not a really pretty place to play. If stealing 85 pens and then putting up a defense that will pass muster with a qualified court-appointed psychiatrist is a fun way to spend an afternoon, go for it.
How about a change of scenario – instead of a bag, left by a trusting person, one finds a wallet forgotten by its owner – on the sidewalk, in a parking lot, whatever. Does the owner’s negligence justify a “finder keeper” attitude? And how about finding the wallet without anything to identify the owner? Does the finder has an obligation to go to a police station and all that is involved with that?
Very Useful discussion i remember the Raskolnikov conundrum in Crime and Punishment.
and can you provide contex of this example ?
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